A Tale of Two Radio Shows

Mad as Hell in America
Yesterday I appeared along with Jeff Hawkins on a Portland radio show called Mad as Hell in America.  Producer Jesse Singer hosted the show and he invited us on for a full two hours to talk about Scientology.  I was on the phone and Jeff was in studio.  We covered a lot of ground.  There’s never enough time but between us we talked about such things as the Scientology mindset, recruitment and progress up the Bridge, the use of celebrities, control mechanisms in the group and the abusive nature of David Miscavige.  In case you missed it, here it is in two parts:
[audio:http://xenutv.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/3-10-12-Hour1.mp3|titles=Mad as Hell in America – Hour 1]
[audio:http://xenutv.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/3.10.12.Hour2_1.mp3|titles=Mad as Hell in America – Hour 2]
Peter Boyles
A few days earlier, another radio host had the chance to talk with Marty Rathbun.  Rather than shedding light onto some of the problems in the Church of Scientology, the host (Peter Boyles) decided to let the conversation degenerate into mockery of Rathbun, derailing whatever conversation they might have had.  I know I will take some flack for this but I’m siding with Marty on this one. While I agree Marty wasn’t being forthright about the upper level materials, there were greater points which could have been made without just mocking him and driving him off the show.  Anons have been taking delight over at Why We Protest but I think it’s better to keep talking and shed light than just get the heat of a confrontation.  That said, I would welcome the chance to debate any Scientologist on any show and point out when they are less than open or blatantly lying.  It seldom happens but when I get the chance it is fun.
[audio:http://xenutv.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Peter-Boyle-Interviews-Marty-Rathbun.mp3|titles=Peter Boyles Interviews Marty Rathbun]

15 Replies to “A Tale of Two Radio Shows”

  1. I have mixed feelings about the Marty interview. I think that a host has a responsibility to show some deference to his guests, but I also think Marty aggravated the situation by his half-answers and outright evasions on the subject. Also, Marty has fostered an environment on his blog where his word goes unquestioned; unfortunately for him, the Wog world ain’t like that.

  2. If you are interviewing someone regarding a controversial subject your job is to get to the bottom of things and uncover the truth. Pressing Marty a little about some of the beliefs of the cult is fine. That is what Marty should expect if he agress to be interviewed by someone who is well versed on the subject. If he takes offense…too bad. Like Marc said, this is the wog world…and we are not the kool aid drinkers he is used to. Marty’s answers revealed him to still be under the spell of a sinister and destructive belief system. Kudos to the host. Part of me wants to believe that Mike and Marty are now on the right team since they are speaking out about DM, but as long as they are still drinking the kool aid when it comes to the teachings of LRH I am afraid I can’t be supportive of them. LRH was just as evil as DM. Perhaps they will come to realize that in time. For now, it looks like they have not changed.

  3. Great job Mark and Jeff. Thanks for speaking out and helping people avoid this dangerous cult.
    I thought the host on the Rathbun interview was argumentative and rude. Marty didn’t deny the Xenu story existed, he just said that he didn’t believe it, and that it wasn’t central to his brand of Scientology. Ironically the type of black and white thinking that the host displayed (as in you have to swallow the whole enchilada or you’re not a real Scientologist) is a classic cult tactic. I’m no fan of any type of Scientology (independent or otherwise) but as long as Marty and his group aren’t abusing anyone he can believe whatever he wants. And we should all commend him for standing up to the official church of Scientology and helping many of its victims escape.

  4. Check out the Church of the Sub-Genius
    and
    the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
    Both are real, on line churches and viable alternatives to the Church of Scientology. really, check them out.

  5. When I was in the cult the OT’s wouldn’t even say XENU around me because they thought that just hearing the word would cause me to die from pneumonia within two days. They did everything they could to keep the story under raps until the word got out with xenu.net. Now that it is out and nobody has died from pneumonia, the story has changed. Now, it is not the word Xenu that kills, it is attempting the entire OT3 level that will kill unprepared individuals. Second, they say they don’t want people to know about Xenu because it will subject the church to ridicule.
    This is what they do. When the lie is found out they double back into a new lie, pretending that what happened before, never happened.
    Rathbun continues to believe in the nonsense and avoids admitting it by claiming that he doesn’t believe in anything. Saying that he doesn’t “believe” is another way of saying he has “experienced” his knowledge so it is no longer simply belief.
    Marty Rathbun is full of baloney. Thank goodness Mr. Singer didn’t accept his foolishness.

  6. Great interview, Mark and Jeff. People who can speak so clearly, unclouded by emotions, and without dodging any questions, are priceless when it comes to showing Co$ for what it is. Thanks.

  7. I am by no means a scientologist, but have been following this so called church ever since I watched the BBC documentary with John Sweeney, and I was appalled at the behaviour of this church then. Since that time I have been looking up a lot of info bad and good about this and have come to the conclusion there is some pretty nasty things going on with this church. I hope that with the latest media coverages this subject will be seriously investigated soon, I have spoken to family and friends who knew nothing about this and they are now quite interested. So thanks to people like Mark I think it is getting the attention it deserves. (And by the way send a small donation a while back) Looking forward to your release!!!

  8. Wow, excellent radio appearance of WBM and Jeff Hawkins, really covers a lot of ground… always strikes me how the Scientology story is so complex and disturbing that it *doesn’t even fit into a 2h radio show*… just wow.
    Really looking forward to the film!!!
    I also agree that the interviewer is a little hobnailed in the way he approaches Marty. Instead of asking him some really intelligent questions… for example, how he really thinks about Hubbard, or about how things work inside of the church when they pull off these extremely mafia-like and sinister attacks.
    I would for example be curious how he intends to prevent Hubbard’s philosophy from producing the same evil in the future.
    Overall, it does seem as if Marty is an important player in dismantling the corporate church, but the question how things such as they happen under Miscavige are going to be prevented in the future is still open, and the more I am learning about that, the harder of a time I have believing that going in and rescueing something from within all those things that nobody in the whole world should have to deal with.
    But instead of coming up with some intelligent questions, it feels like he is just running a “revenge” on him by running over him with the “OT3 is B.S.” steamroller. I mean, being angry with Scientology is a perfectly legitimate approach especially given that he has been “fair gamed” himself, but it would be still worth investigating what allows something like the Scientology to operate like that.
    Much of it is still unreal to me. How can humanity be turned on itself so badly?

  9. I still say that Scientologists should check out the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, because when you add up att the good the Church of Scientology does, and subtract out all the damage it does, the net effect (balance) is that the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster is a much better place to spend your time.

  10. I want to re-phrase the above comment. Net case gain = case gain – brain damage. My next action will be Pastatherian.

  11. While I agree that Boyles was rude to Rathbun, it was obvious from that interview that Rathbun’s beliefs don’t hold up under scrutiny. One could argue that most beliefs don’t hold up under logical scrutiny, but Rathbun’s cherry-picking goes against the basic tenets of Scientology thereby this interview proved to me that Rathbun only physically left the cult.
    The main problem with the practice of auditing, both inside and outside the walls of Scientology, is that the auditor is not trained to properly handle the myriad of potential outcomes, including but not limited to psychotic breaks, major depressive disorder, mania, or paranoid delusions. The auditor is ill trained to decipher traits or symptoms that potentially mean a serious mental health problem exists (one that needs immediate medical intervention).
    Auditors are taught to dispose of Type IIIs (those exhibiting a psychotic break), which could have DISASTROUS consequences. Further, those that dispense the ‘tech’ are using methods that have not been scientifically tested in controlled tests, peer reviewed, and the auditors lack any professional accountability. This could be a recipe for disaster.
    WBM, I think the fact that Rathbun et al continue to preach and perform a practice that has led many down the path to severe mental illness is never addressed by ANYONE and deserves scrutiny. Although I don’t agree with how and why Boyles shot down Rathbun’s “beliefs”, I do agree that more Wogs should shine a light on this potentially harmful practice before someone gets hurt.
    I would hate for someone to hurt themselves or others before Rathbun and the others that share in this dangerous practice wake up.

  12. I think Peter Boyles actually showed his ignorance. Most critics are aware that the xenu story is not known to most Scientologists, and some of those who do OTIII just use mental gymnastics to cope with it and rationalize it.
    I think he was rude, and it was a wasted opportunity to engage with him. If Boyles knew his subject matter, as he suggested he did, he could have asked a ton of interesting questions.
    I guess he doesn’t think its his job, but I always think that TV and radio presenters have an opportunity to reach Scientologists who may be listening. Going on and on about xenu will not achieve that.

  13. I have to take exception to the arguement that Marty was treated badly by Peter Boyles. Should we forget that while Mike, Marty and Debbie did suffer for a time under the heel of DM, for many years they lived as royality off of the sweat and even in some cases the blood of their RPF slaves.How about the RPF camps under the direct command of Ms.Cook when she ran the CO$ operations in Clearwater? Not one single word of regret or personal accountability from those three. All we hear is “it is all the fault of DM”!
    Many of CO$ members escaped from the CO$ with little more then the clothes on their back while we can see for ourselves the nice lifestyle that Mike and Marty enjoy. As far as Debbie Cook, there was a payoff and continued fiscal support from CO$ members when she and her husband moved to Texas.
    Think of it this way, it is April, 1945 and out of the bunker comes three very high ranking members of the Nazi party and they say as they come out of the bunker, ” none of this is my fault”. That line did not work then and it should not work now.

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